034: Remastered: Interview with Rick Doblin, Alex Grey & Allyson Grey at Burning Man 2016 / by Joe

Do we have a treat for you.

To welcome our new listeners, we present you a re-mastered special edition of the episode we recorded live at Burning Man on August 31, 2016, which features three pioneers and key drivers in the movement to mainstream psychedelic medicine.

Special thanks to Rod for the audio engineering!

Special note for Patreon supporters: you will get a special before-the-show "opening conversation". Check patreon.com/Entheogen.

Burning Man 2016

We had the great pleasure and honor to speak with three pioneers and key drivers in the movement to mainstream psychedelic medicine:

Alex Grey & Allyson Grey, co-founders of CoSM, the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors (CoSM.org).

Rick Doblin, founder and executive director of MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS.org).

We thank deeply all three of our esteemed guests for their time and generosity of spirit.

We’d also like to thank Dr. Bronner’s ReFOAMation Village for their hospitality and Alex & Allyson for graciously hosting the recording in their RV.


  • Alex & Allyson Grey’s take on the state of the movement to mainstream psychedelics

  • Has non-violence slowed our progress?

  • Alex & Allyson’s $2000 fine for cannabis possession upon entering Burning Man

  • Alex mentions Roland Griffiths’ reprisal of Walter Pahnke’s Good Friday Experiment at Johns Hopkins University: Hopkins Scientists Show Hallucinogen In Mushrooms Creates Universal “Mystical” Experience

  • Rick Doblin discusses the improved relationship with Law Enforcement and the Burning Man organization including better integration of the Zendo Project at Burning Man 2016

  • Rick quotes Einstein: “There’s no conflict between science and religion. There’s a conflict between bad science and bad religion.”

  • Rick talks about how he sees psychedelics being integrated into society in 25 years

  • Rick discusses the “beautiful breakup” he had while on MDA

  • Rick compares MDA to MDMA

  • Allyson discusses her personal experiences with MDA and MDMA

  • The idea of patient self-titration

  • Alex, Allyson, and Rick discuss their milestones this year: 20 years since the founding of CoSM and 30 years since the founding of MAPS

  • Rick describes building a handball court at New College of Florida, overlooking the nudist colony where his girlfriend was lifeguarding

  • Rick discusses the first responders and veterans enrolled in the MDMA for PTSD study (“not just for hippies at Burning Man”)

  • Cannabis as a neuroprotective, anti-tumor agent (and it makes you feel better too)

  • Carl Sagan’s friendship with Lester Grinspoon

  • Carl Sagan’s secret use of cannabis for 40 years

  • Psychedelics and schizophrenia

  • Rick’s idea to create a “drug license” system

  • Time to “come out of the psychedelic closet”

  • MAPS organizes Global Psychedelic Dinners to encourage “coming out” about our psychedelic use

  • BuildEntheon.com


Thank you so much for listening to Entheogen and for supporting us on Patreon and for telling your friends.